End circumcision

[–]TWR3545 454 points455 points456 points 6 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–]MissingTheMarc 162 points163 points164 points 6 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThEGr33kXII 99 points100 points101 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points34 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThEGr33kXII 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]itsrealnibbahours 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThEGr33kXII 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]VulgarGenes1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]vodoko1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cirebron 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ThEGr33kXII 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 51 points52 points53 points 6 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]keloking88 38 points39 points40 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 33 points34 points35 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]keloking88 19 points20 points21 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cajunFAITH 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orchidbleu 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orchidbleu 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]were_gonna_make_it 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]were_gonna_make_it 15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]light_bringer777 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]were_gonna_make_it 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]try_____another 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]agree-with-you 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]hectorgarabit 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]light_bringer777 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Luke79AU 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orchidbleu 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orchidbleu 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ocks_ 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Korinthe 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]were_gonna_make_it 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrskirksey 263 points264 points265 points 6 years ago (49 children) | Copy Link

[–]corpuscaIIosum 31 points32 points33 points 6 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Prettttybird 24 points25 points26 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]liriodendron1 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]katamaritumbleweed 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orchidbleu 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]katamaritumbleweed 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orchidbleu 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]katamaritumbleweed 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Invaala -13 points-12 points-11 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[+]GitGudScrubzzz1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

Foreskin contains several dedicated tissues and tens of thousands of nerve endings. Comparing it to a piece of skin on your hand is intellectually dishonest. It is absolutely an amputation of a perfectly healthy and functional structure, and claims otherwise are objectively wrong. The science on this is settled.

[–]Invaala -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+]GitGudScrubzzz1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it is.

"Amputation is the surgical removal of all or part of a limb or extremity"

It is amputation by definition. Objectively.

[–]vodoko1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+] Invaala -7 points -6 points -5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz6 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]dummuru2 points 6 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

You'll make a great mother

[–]vodoko1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]GuruDev1000 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthEquus 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AgentSears 25 points26 points27 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]timeslider 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CLxJames 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NecroGem 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+] Upvote_myAss -54 points -53 points -52 points 6 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–] FlyingSpaceBanana 31 points 32 points 33 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–] liriodendron1 11 points 12 points 13 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] katamaritumbleweed 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] liriodendron1 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+] Upvote_myAss -52 points -51 points -50 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–] hedidy13 9 points 10 points 11 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+] Upvote_myAss -8 points -7 points -6 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] hedidy13 2 points 3 points 4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] DarthEquus 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] sdraz -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand people wanting to boys to make their own decision and that’s a good thing. But apart from that I’m glad I’m circumcised for a couple reasons. First off, my head is pretty sensitive, if it were more sensitive, it would be painful and unpleasant. Next, I’ve never had to use lube to jack off. Everything slides smoothly and the unlubed experience provides more stimulation. Finally, and this is no doubt an American thing, but I have heard girls discuss the topic several times in regards to having sex with a guy. They simply aren’t used to uncut dicks and have been trained to appreciate the aesthetic of cut dicks. Most of them probably won’t let this get in the way of fucking somebody but it’s a sentiment I’ve heard echoed over the years, especially in college.

I’ve been told a couple times that I have an aesthetically pleasing dick. The same probably wouldn’t be said in Europe but that effects me in no way here in America. People always tell me I don’t know what I’m missing but if somebody told me they could restore my foreskin completely I’d take a hard pass. Wouldn’t even do it unless I was getting paid a huge sum and then I’d just chop it right back off. I guess it’s a good thing to be happy with your body.

[–] accidental_me 10 points 11 points 12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Mrskirksey 17 points 18 points 19 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+] Upvote_myAss -36 points -35 points -34 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–] PrekaereLage 10 points 11 points 12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a myth. Bad hygiene will mean a risk of infection, even if cut.\ The biggest risk lowering effect of male genital cutting is a slightly reduced risk of urinal tract infections. And statistically speaking, you need to cut more than a hundred babies to avoid a single such infection, because it's already not that common, and very much treatable.\ Also, by your own standards, you should support cutting girls at birth because girls and women get UTIs way more often than males, so if it's enough of a risk to cut boys, it's also enough of a risk to cut girls. The vagina has a lot of really nice potential habitat for bacteria and all manner of things, hence the higher infection rate, yet somehow for girls our solution is telling them to wash themselves properly.\ And that, buddy, are actual facts.\ Also fuck right off with your shaming tactics, using a young mother's concern for her child's health and her desire to hive to it the best childhood and living conditions she can as an attack angle to push your barbaric inhumane mutilation ritual onto her and her newborn is about as disgusting and deplorable as it gets. Since you're so into cutting things around genitals, try sterilisation.

[–] JayRulo 2 points 3 points 4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] 18Apollo18 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+] Mrskirksey -14 points -13 points -12 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] liriodendron1 10 points 11 points 12 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] WatchVaderDance 2 points 3 points 4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Calactic 3 points 4 points 5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] Upvote_myAss -2 points -1 points 0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]slutslyainstud 85 points86 points87 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThereAreThings 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lordmadone 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]andson-r 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]tdeleon21 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lordmadone -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]lordmadone 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]lordmadone 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz4 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]sdraz 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Retr0G72 49 points50 points51 points 6 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthEquus 34 points35 points36 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrskirksey 52 points53 points54 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Greg_W_Allan 61 points62 points63 points 6 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]tralfamadelorean31 19 points20 points21 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wyatt2065 36 points37 points38 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]reddifiningkarma 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MishMiassh 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]heebs4change 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+] WalkedWithAZombie -7 points -6 points -5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] were_gonna_make_it 11 points 12 points 13 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

False. Read the earliest sources, they say nothing about hygeine. They are explicitly clear that it solely a religious sacrifice meant to curb male sexuality.

Plus, modern circumcision as we know it (Bris Milah) wasn't invented until the 2nd century AD. Before that circumcision was a much less drastic procedure that only removed the very tip of the foreskin and left 90% of the foreskin intact. So if there was any "hygeine benefits" to the modern style it wouldn't have been applicable to ancient times pre 2nd century AD.

The modern style of full amputation of the entire foreskin was invented in the 2nd century AD by Jewish Rabbis who wanted to punish Jewish men who, at the time, had adopted the practice of foreskin restoration to fit in with their uncircumcised Greek and Roman peers. This style of cut was designed to make it impossible for a man to ever restore his foreskin and to remove as much of the erogenous tissue of the penis as possible.

[–] WalkedWithAZombie 5 points 6 points 7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]supamario132 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is going to sound rude, I really don't mean to offend but I want to address this response I see so often on circumcision:

Nature generally doesn't get it wrong

If certain goat species don't fight often enough, their horns will pierce through their skulls. Honey bees die when they use their only defensive attribute. Narwhal horns are teeth that pierce through the roof of their mouth to form a horn. All painful, all preventable.

I won't even start to mention the hundreds of traits humans have that are strictly drawbacks.

My whole point is: Listen to and promote the science saying circumcision is not beneficial because this idea that "nature doesn't get it wrong" is as effective at convincing people as saying circumcision's right cause it's in the bible. It's pure mysticism and not everyone shares that same religious awe of nature.

Evolution doesn't care about your health or well-being. It will gladly produce creatures that suffer their entire lives so long as they reproduce. Nature gets it wrong all the time (from our perspective). That's why we train medical researchers, preach their discoveries instead

[–]DizzyDeezler 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]rubixd 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] DizzyDeezler -3 points -2 points -1 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]DizzyDeezler 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DizzyDeezler 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HeWhoFrownsLikeALord 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]suckmyslab 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 19 points20 points21 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]WalkedWithAZombie 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]igwsttrrwhtmm1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

As a person with phimosis i kinda wish i was circumcised at birth.

[+]Mackowatosc1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

But...you do realise that phimosis is only rarely a case for circumcision, right? Many cases are resolvable w/o surgical intervention.

[–]igwsttrrwhtmm22 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Throwaway_Old_Guy 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AbysmalDescent 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Couple2423 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thwip621 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+] SandS5000 -10 points -9 points -8 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago * (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AgentSears 38 points39 points40 points 6 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link

[–]Invaala 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]AgentSears 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]GitGudScrubzzz1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

Really? Because I run, and suffered genital mutilation at birth. It's incredibly uncomfortable, and always has been, to feel my unprotected penis chafing and scarring against fabric.

[–]sdraz -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]GitGudScrubzzz3 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Any circumcision is a botched circumcision outside of medical necessity. Of course you've never heard people talk about it, most guys are too embarassed and ashamed to admit their penis is causing them pain or discomfort, especially when the pro-circ crowd is so rabidly idiotic.

[–]MediumCheese3 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]GitGudScrubzzz0 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Cool story bro, I didn't claim anything to the contrary despite what your obvious lack of reading comprehension causes you to believe.

[–]MediumCheese3 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Invaala -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz10 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Invaala -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GrimmPsycho655 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]GrimmPsycho655 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]GrimmPsycho655 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GrimmPsycho655 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]thegrandwizard1 -10 points-9 points-8 points 6 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]WalkedWithAZombie 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]thegrandwizard1 -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peter_Principle_ 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]thegrandwizard1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Peter_Principle_ 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WalkedWithAZombie 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]thegrandwizard1 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]WalkedWithAZombie 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]thegrandwizard1 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]elnormous1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Have you tried sex before and after?

[–]thegrandwizard1 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]elnormous1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Was hygiene in issue for you before? I wash my dick in the shower like the rest of my body, never had any issues.

What made you get it done?

[–]thegrandwizard1 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]elnormous1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad the procedure went well and you're happy with the effects. You make it sound like the recovery wasn't too bad either? If that's the case, why can't we ban this procedure for children, and let them decide as adults?

[–]thegrandwizard1 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] thegrandwizard1 -5 points -4 points -3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] thegrandwizard1 -2 points -1 points 0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Luke79AU 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]50pciggy 31 points32 points33 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Greg_W_Allan 21 points22 points23 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]LgDietCoke 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]liriodendron1 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]were_gonna_make_it 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]another_redditor1219 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]were_gonna_make_it 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orchidbleu 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Greg_W_Allan 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]forzion_no_mouse1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

but it's to avoid an awkward conversation with my kid. I'm willing to risk his life and limb to avoid saying, "hey wash your dick."

[–]PrekaereLage 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrskirksey 29 points30 points31 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[+]qwertyasdfg1234561 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

"Jen Williams founded Your Whole Baby in December of 2014. Previously, Jen taught middle school and high school English for seven years in Texas public schools. Before teaching, Jen spent several years working for an animal rights organization in their campaigns department."

Lol fucking opportunist with zero real credentials

[+]elnormous1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

You've conveniently ignored the downsides, like reduced sensitivity during sex, amongst others.

Claiming it reduces STIs is like saying chopping your hand off reduces the chance of you slamming your finger in a door. It's technically true, but at what cost?

[+]qwertyasdfg1234561 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

"amongst others"

Care to share what those are?

[+]KindaNotSmart1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Your example doesn’t make any sense unless the topic was completely chopping your dick off. And ‘at what cost’? Losing a little foreskin is the cost, it’s not the end of the world chill

[+]elnormous1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

If the only cost was 'losing a little foreskin', we wouldn't be having this conversation. I listed one clear, major downside in the post you're replying to. Come on, put a little effort in.

[+]KindaNotSmart1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Reduced sensitivity isn’t as big of a deal as you’re making it out to be

[–]Rano_Orcslayer 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the stats on the items listed by the Mayo clinic sheds great insight.

Hygiene: We have easy access to water for hygiene. It’s easy to wash body parts.
Lowers UTI: "It has been estimated that 111 to 125 normal infant boys (for whom the risk of UTI is 1% to 2%) would need to be circumcised at birth to prevent one UTI.". Take a minute to think about how many 111 to 125 boys are. I would need to have 118 sons (!) and circumcise all of them to prevent a single UTI. And UTI’s "can easily be treated with antibiotics without tissue loss"
STDs and HIV: “The number needed to [circumcise] to prevent one HIV infection varied, from 1231 in white males to 65 in black males, with an average in all males of 298.” Condoms are an actually effective transmission barriers to STIs and must be used regardless.
Penile Problems: "An estimated 0.8% to 1.6% of boys will require circumcision before puberty, most commonly to treat phimosis. The first-line medical treatment of phimosis involves applying a topical steroid twice a day to the foreskin, accompanied by gentle traction. This therapy ... allow[s] the foreskin to become retractable in 80% of treated cases, thus usually avoiding the need for circumcision."
Penile cancer: “Decreased penile cancer risk: NNT = 900 – 322,000”. That means between 900 and 322,000 circumcisions need to be performed to prevent a single case of penile cancer. It is incredibly rare.
Cervical cancer is from HPV which has a vaccine. Which is so effective that (turning to news) "Australia could become first country to eradicate cervical cancer. Free vaccine program in schools leads to big drop in rates."

These stats are terrible, it's disingenuous for these to be called legitimate health benefits. And more importantly, all of these items have a different treatment or prevention method that is more effective and less invasive.

And importantly the foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis. (Full study.)

[–]Orchidbleu 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrskirksey -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]donkongmdk 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]insaniaeternus 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]were_gonna_make_it 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]donkongmdk 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]hawksdiesel 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Mister_Doctor121 points 6 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Can someone explain why circumcision is wrong? I am just uninformed on this issue. I see no problem with it, I am circumcised myself.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthEquus 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]the_crx 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]pcbfbas 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]pcbfbas 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gousaarmy 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Phantom_Pizza15 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MingSushi 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AbysmalDescent 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Neveah_Hope_Dreams 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lil-sparky 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (45 children) | Copy Link

So I am a good faith member of this sub. I just want to hear your arguments. I have been cut, I was too young to remember, I haven’t really thought about it, I don’t care all that much. I’m biased from the position that I think the typical cutting experience was like mine, (not memorable, not impacting today) which I acknowledge I don’t really know for sure. If I am operating from that mindset, then there is almost nothing about it that I perceive negatively affects me and others like me today. What is the compelling reason for me to take up this cause given all that I have stated? Again, not trolling, antagonizing (mods please give me benefit of the doubt and don’t knee jerk ban me) I just want to know honest thoughts because I already support everything else in this sub, and thanks.

Edit: Worded things better.

[–]intactisnormal 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Greg_W_Allan 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I have been cut, I was too young to remember

Up to that point you and I are peers. Apparently mine was organised by my maternal grandmother without my parents' knowledge. Of the three males in my immediate family I'm the only one cut. Whilst I don't know the exact reasons my father DID kick the crap out of my grandfather a week after my birth.

I’m biased from the position that I think the typical cutting experience was like mine, (not memorable, not impacting today) which I acknowledge I don’t really know for sure.

If hearing bad news is uncomfortable it may be best you avoid the discussions altogether. Your curiosity may outweigh such fear however. That's up to you. A former long term partner from the 80s and 90s was responsible for my initial impulse to learn about it. She was furious about what had been done to me by an over-eager cutter and was the first "intactivist" I ever knew. I don't like it at all, but it is what is is. Maybe(?) I can prevent it from happening to others but I needed to learn about it first. Once the internet came along I was able to really expand on it.

I've made a couple of brief posts in this thread covering some of the impact or generalities. It IS safe for work stuff. Otherwise it's probably just best to avoid the discussions where emotions and name calling rule.

Edit...Couple of good links from other posters too.

[+]DelScipio1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

The negative side effects is that some procedures go wrong. Small boys lose their penis for ever. Imagine if you lost your penis, or had a big scare that reduced your sensitivity (can lead to impotence).

When you do a "couple" of procedures a year with a very low rate complication rate in a situation like phimosis, you maybe have a complication or two a year. When you mass mutilate the population you get 100-1000 times that.

There's no benefit of circumcision. You still have to clean your penis (if you don't, do it). Is easier to masturbate with a intact penis, etc.

[–]GrimmPsycho655 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]counter345 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GrimmPsycho655 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthEquus 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If I may, I would recommend watching these presentations:

This presentation from Dr. Guest goes over the medical aspects very well: He covers the anatomy of the foreskin, the sensations, the medical aspects and statistics, the evolutionary aspects, cultural bias, medical ethics, and more: https://youtu.be/XwZiQyFaAs0?t=28m20

This presentation, Circumcision The Elephant in the Hospital, from Research Assistant Professor Ryan McAllister, challenges the normality of circumcision from both a social and medical perspective: https://youtu.be/Ceht-3xu84I

This is the documentary American Circumcision that was released on Netflix: https://archive.org/details/CircMovie

This video is pretty simple. It's an objective overview of the prepuce (foreskin) from an anatomical and physiological standpoint: https://youtu.be/D_dzeDvx2QA

This video goes into the details regarding the supposed health benefits of circumcision: https://youtu.be/s9A6gPT55zQ

This presentation from Ethicist Brian Earp excellently covers all the ethical, social, and religious aspects: https://youtu.be/SB-2aQoTQeA

This presentation, Sex and Circumcision: an American Love Story, by Eric Clopper should at least provide you with some laughs: https://youtu.be/FCuy163srRc

Here are some actual circumcision videos. If watching something like this makes you feel uncomfortable, imagine how he must feel: https://www.yourwholebaby.org/circumcision-videos

This rabbit hole gets even crazier when you take a look at the other male genital modifications done in different cultures throughout the world. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Male_genital_modification. I'm guessing you wouldn't be too thrilled if some of these things were done to you as a baby.

[–]Lethn 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]sdraz 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lethn 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/immerman2/

The relevant and spare literature which deals with the (human) prepuce tends to refer (tacitly) to the human foreskin as a mere flap of skin. Anatomically, however, this description is not accurate. The intact human foreskin is richly innervated and contains holocrine glands (e.g., Tyson's glands) (see Sommerova, 1976; Halata and Munger, 1986; and Dail and Evan, 1974 for reviews of the development of sensory nerve endings in the human penis). In terms of surface area, the human foreskin represents approximately 36 percent—more than a third—of the intact penis (Ritter, 1992). As a facet of the man's reproductive apparatus, the foreskin seems to be nontrivial.

Given that "pleasure," "feeling," and "sensation" are all localized within the brain, if circumcision were to affect the neural organization of the brain, then subsequent sexual reactions would also be affected. Studies on the triangulation of the foreskin and the central nervous system and circumcision have yet to be conducted or, at least, are not easily findable. Nonetheless, inferential evidence is available.

[–]badass_panda 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]AbysmalDescent 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]badass_panda -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]AbysmalDescent 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]badass_panda -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AbysmalDescent 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]badass_panda 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[+]GitGudScrubzzz1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

The total harm caused by this issue is very low compared to others

Absolute grade A bullshit. The only reason the harms are not more well known is propaganda, brainwashing, and a profit motive.

a lot of men's issues are issues of life and death. This one isn't.

Tell that to the literally hundreds of boys who die or are disfigured for life every year. Fucking unbelievable how stupid or just ignorant some of you fuckers are about this topic.

EDIT: LOL. Of course, downvote because you have no logical rebuttal. Fucking pathetic.

[–]badass_panda 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

The total harm

Causing babies suffering for a week is Harm, isn't it? Beating up crying babies is not legal or morally justified so how come this is? We're talking about performing an UNNECESSARY surgery in the most sensitive part of the baby's body.

To put it bluntly, a lot of men's issues are issues of life and death

No, you just don't want this issue here because you can rationalize circumcision in your head. This sub constantly talks about issues such as Divorce and Misandry faced by men in everyday Workplaces&Academia, these are not exactly life or death issues either but we discuss them nonetheless. I don't think you would go around saying "Guys, we need to talk more about male suicides, let's not waste time talking about how much systemic discrimination Boys face in the School System".

Don't trivialize this issue, babies have the right to not get their penis ripped apart when they are born and yes this is a hill i'd rather die on.

[–] badass_panda -2 points -1 points 0 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–] RockmanXX 2 points 3 points 4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] badass_panda -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] RockmanXX 2 points 3 points 4 points 6 years ago * (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] badass_panda 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude, you aren't ever going to make a difference or improve anyone's life. I will. While you're telling me that I don't belong because I don't agree with you on one issue, I'll do my damnedest to help create gender equality on issues that make a difference in the lives of men.

Those are unequal access to time off, to nurturing professions, to crisis help and counseling. That's unequal outcomes from law enforcement, gender biases in the family court system, and gender roles that force men into dangerous, harmful situations.

This stuff matters to me, but not just to give me something I can be mad about, or people I can yell at and insult. I want to help people, not divide them into smaller and smaller groups of good guys and bad guys.

I'm sorry that you're feeling this way, and I can empathize with how hurt you are, but I'm not going to pretend to outrage I don't feel just to make you like me.

[–]GrimmPsycho655 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AbysmalDescent 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LgDietCoke -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]WalkedWithAZombie 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LgDietCoke 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Calactic 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]LgDietCoke 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Calactic 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]LgDietCoke 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Calactic 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LgDietCoke 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]qwertyasdfg1234561 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Notice how all the replies are anecdotal, or they say "it's just wrong", or they say "go read about it, it really opened my eyes." The evidence that's out there is not much better, all of the sites I've read remind me of PETA.

If you want another anecdote, my grandfather told me that in his old age, he was incapable of cleaning his own penis in the shower. He needed assistance. He said be glad you're circumcised, so you don't have to deal with all the gunk that grows underneath and all of the complications from not being able to easily clean.

[+]WalkedWithAZombie1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah the “gunk” really isn’t a problem until you’re that age. Cleaning your dick and showering regularly isn’t difficult dude.

[+]qwertyasdfg1234561 points 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

jUsT sHoWeR bEtTeR lOl

[–]WalkedWithAZombie-1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]corpuscaIIosum 21 points22 points23 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]thegrandwizard1 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]liriodendron1 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]were_gonna_make_it 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]I_Hate_Snowflakes 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]I_Hate_Snowflakes 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thegrandwizard1 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]sdraz 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thegrandwizard1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Amputation of half the penile tissue? maybe you should look up what a circumcision actually is before commenting

I know exactly what circumcision is and all the negative side effects it causes

The mean length of prepuce in this sample was 6.4 cm (range 4.8-9.2) and covered 93% of the mean penile shaft (6.9 cm). Ten prepuces were as long as or longer than the shaft of the penis to which they belonged; three of them were > 10% longer than the shaft and glans combined. 51% of the length of the mean adult penile shaft, or more from nearly half the penises. CONCLUSION: CIRCUMCISION REMOVES MORE THAN HALF OF TOTAL PENILE SKIN

Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

Circumcision was associated with frequent orgasm difficulties in Danish men and with a range of frequent sexual difficulties in their female partners, notably orgasm difficulties, dyspareunia and a sense of incomplete sexual needs fulfilment.

The analysis sample consisted of 1059 uncircumcised and 310 circumcised men. For the glans penis, circumcised men reported decreased sexual pleasure and lower orgasm intensity. They also stated more effort was required to achieve orgasm, and a higher percentage of them experienced unusual sensations (burning, prickling, itching, or tingling and numbness of the glans penis).For the penile shaft a higher percentage of circumcised men described discomfort and pain, numbness and unusual sensations.In comparison to men circumcised before puberty, men circumcised during adolescence or later indicated less sexual pleasure at the glans penis, and a higher percentage of them reported discomfort or pain and unusual sensations at the penile shaft.

Cut vs Intact sensitivity chart(NSFW)

Circumcision removes the natural protection against meatal stenosis and, possibly, other USDs as well.

In meatal stenosis the meatus, or opening at the tip of the penis, becomes narrower. Meatal stenosis is almost exclusively found in males who have been circumcised. Symptoms include the following: Pain or burning while urinating, Sudden urges to urinate, Having to urinate often, A small, narrow, very fast urinary stream, A urinary flow that sprays (usually upward) or is difficult to aim, Trouble with fully emptying the bladder, A drop of blood at the tip of the penis after urinating

[–]thegrandwizard1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]thegrandwizard1 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]thegrandwizard1 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Good job I'm British then.

I mean this is basic information on the NHS.

Phimosis isn't usually a problem unless it causes symptoms such as redness, soreness or swelling.

If your glans is sore and inflamed, you may have balanitis (inflammation of the head of the penis). There may also be a thick discharge underneath the foreskin. If both the glans and foreskin are inflamed, it's known as balanoposthitis.

Most cases of balanitis can be easily managed using a combination of good hygiene, creams or ointments, and avoiding substances that irritate the penis. Read more about treating balanitis. Balanoposthitis can also sometimes be treated by following simple hygiene measures, such as keeping the penis clean by regularly washing it with water and a mild soap or moisturiser. If balanoposthitis is caused by a fungal or bacterial infection, an antifungal cream or a course of antibiotics may be needed.

Topical steroids (a cream, gel or ointment that contains corticosteroids) are often prescribed to treat a tight foreskin. They can help soften the skin of the foreskin, making it easier to retract.

Circumcision (surgically removing part or all of the foreskin) may be considered if other treatments have failed, but it carries risks such as bleeding and infection. This means it's usually only recommended as a last resort, although it can sometimes be the best treatment option

Alternatively, surgery to release the adhesions (areas where the foreskin is stuck to the glans) may be possible. This will preserve the foreskin but may not always prevent the problem recurring.

Source: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/phimosis/

[–]ThrwAwyByTheDozen 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Killrog8 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Carmelboxer59 12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Killrog8 -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Carmelboxer59 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Killrog8 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Carmelboxer59 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Killrog8 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tiiimmmbooo 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DeathArrow007 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]liriodendron1 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DeathArrow007 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SwordoftheRevelation 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (66 children) | Copy Link

[–]NecroHexr 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lethn 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (64 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hurricane12112 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]SwordoftheRevelation -6 points-5 points-4 points 6 years ago (62 children) | Copy Link

I mean because I genuinely do not care either way and it's always the dumbest arguments for and against on both sides. I was circumcised. My whole damn family was circumcised. The one sibling who decided not to have her boys circumcised ended up having to pay for complications with both her boys because one had a foreskin that grew to cover his urethra (don't ask me how. I wasn't overly interested in finding out about my nephew's penis.) And the other got kicked in the penis which caused a tear in the foreskin. Needless to say, I just don't give a fuck and people should really care about lot less about kid's genitals. Whatever the hell you as a parent (particularly the male parent as you might have some idea of what the hell you're talking about.) Think is the best decision for your child go for it, but just in general arguing about something so trivial when there's problems that will actually stand a decent chance of affecting your son down the road seems ridiculous.

[–]18Apollo18 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SwordoftheRevelation 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lethn 14 points15 points16 points 6 years ago (56 children) | Copy Link

[–]SwordoftheRevelation -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (55 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lethn 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (54 children) | Copy Link

[–]SwordoftheRevelation 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (53 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lethn 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

[–]SwordoftheRevelation 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (47 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] RockmanXX 2 points 3 points 4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lethn 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–] Lethn 5 points 6 points 7 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–] Lethn 2 points 3 points 4 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation 2 points 3 points 4 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago * (9 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago * (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's steeped in thousands of years of tradition, heavily normalized in the west, has very few people effected negatively by it, and doesn't have very many people pushing against it. As such, even if it would make sense, it will never change and the image of those who push against it is seen as being very odd and "other" to most people which weakens the points those same people or people associated with those same people make about other issues which are more important and effect more people and have more people pushing against them, but are also heavily normalized in society and steeped in even more thousands of years of tradition. Keep in mind that you're never fighting on just one front and you're never fighting against one person, but everything behind that person. Their culture, traditions, beliefs, hormones, etc. etc. Losing a battle on one front simply because you think it's a moral wrong may end up losing you battles on the other fronts and as such lose you the war.

[–] 18Apollo18 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago * (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago * (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Cromwellity 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–] Cromwellity 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

I'm reading the responses. They're just responses I've already heard before and as it turns out when I've mulled over my position in the past I'very always come to the same conclusion. That being that foreskin or not I'm fine, but legal freedoms or not is a different story entirely. But, since you apparently care so much that I haven't given it another thought I'll humor you. Foreskin for slight increased risk of a medical complication in the realm of what I've already described my nephew's experiencing, an odd look, and some extra sensitivity OOOOOOORRRRR no foreskin with a slight increased risk of a medical snafu like the doc snipping a bit too much, a similarly odd look, and a little less sensitivity? Hmmmmmm.... let me think for a moment, I don't care. If the dick still works then it still works. Meanwhile, maybe I could focus some time and energy on advocacy for men's shelters for when they're abused and actually want someone to take their abuse seriously? Or maybe advocacy for gender less laws, desegregation of spaces based on the lines of sex, and pushing for gender less treatment of men and women in criminal cases so men don't have to feel like monsters in society? Hell, I'd even take any serious feminist issue (if one could be provided) before concerning myself with a practice that will not in 99.9% of cases effect a man's life in any significant way. If you'd like you could always provide me with your reasons for taking this so seriously instead of just criticising my stance that it is a non issue without providing any reason for me to care in the slightest, but since you've opted to just whine at me that I SHOULD care because reasons I think that's the last thought I'll be putting into this until I'm provided with any evidence that this is an issue that effects more than 2% of the male population. Given the risks associated with just about any other issue facing men I think I'll focus on everything else. Thank you.

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation -2 points -1 points 0 points 6 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Often those who oppose circumcision refer to it as mutilation. I was simply using the common lingo. As for those who are legitimately mutilated they are less than 1% of all cases and as such can take a back burner to the other issues I'd much rather focus on instead of something that results in at worst for MOST men a little desensitization and a cosmetic change. I'm not saying this is about me. This is merely an issue which doesn't represent a major threat to men as a whole, but rather a pitifully small sub group. I use myself as an example merely because it's a first hand account which lends some credence to what I say. Herpes being transmitted during traditional Jewish ceremony most certainly does suck, but it is also an even further sub category of the already small sub category of circumcisions where anything actually goes wrong and as such I'll leave that to someone else to care about while I concern myself with the bigger issues like those who are dying working incredibly dangerous jobs without enough compensation or safety tools to minimize risks or false rape allegations. Both of which individually represent a much greater risk than about a centimeter of flesh hugging an under-formed phallus being removed. I wasn't saying I didn't care about things that didn't happen to me. I was saying I don't care about something that negatively effects 100 a year when I can be far more worried about the thousands losing jobs, lives, children, and everything else from much greater challenges. Perhaps actually pay attention to what people are saying rather than fighting the monsters you perceive are coming through your screen. You'll make less of a fool of yourself.

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Glad to see we could have a productive conversation even though we disagree without resorting to name calling. Truth be told I do think that the mens rights movement should narrow its focus a bit and this is an issue I would gladly leave on the cutting room floor in favor of countless others, but I merely started this out by stating that I was drained by the debate and then merely explained to the first commenter that I wasn't going to "Keep being more vocal and keep fighting" because I didn't care about the cause. Then, I got dog piled and instead of running for the hills took the time to explain to more people why I felt the way I did and got further dismissed with name calling like Fake and Feminist Troll. It's cool if you care so much about this, but I don't understand why you would given the fact that practically no one experiences any negative effects from this unless you in fact were one of the few who did in which case I'm sorry that shit didn't work out for ya, but it worked out better for me to have things play out the way they did, so I'm not going to be going around town with my "BAN CIRCUMCISION" Sign any time soon.

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

The civil discourse comment was sarcasm. I'm well aware of how my opinion on circumcision is received by most MRA. I again only started this conversation with the comment that "this is draining" which it still is. Then, I didn't want to be lumped in with a bunch of people who think a centimeter of skin is worth an actual argument to change laws and customs around the world and explained that I wasn't on the side of people like you who are anti-circumcision and got dog piled. Then, I continued to defend my position and explained myself to people who saw fit to question why I felt as I did on the subject and it's now devolved into you calling me a hypocrite I guess because I said I didn't care if a centimeter of flesh was removed from a child's genitals as there are bigger fish to fry and always will be? Another commenter calling me a retard, another who seems to still be pretty pissed, but so far has left things off, and a single commenter who agreed with my comment explaining that I don't care about the stupid flesh flap and got down voted for it. This, This right here is why this argument is so draining. This is why no one takes you people seriously on this subject. And this is part of what scares people away from the MRA. Most subjects everyone can have slight variations of opinion on or at least agree to disagree on without this kind on nonsense, but for whatever reason you people see fit to treat the foreskin like it's your dick's personal divinely crafted pussy had and lose your minds the moment anyone says "K. But, moving on." and doesn't bow down before the majesty that is your pig in a blanket. The kids are fine, the men are not. Now, moving AAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL they way the fuck on, learn to chill and have a great week my dude.

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation -2 points -1 points 0 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation -2 points -1 points 0 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–] Cromwellity 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

“I don't care about the cause. “ And yet you care enough to repeatedly make that claim, over and over”

That’s hypocritical, which is exactly what makes you a hypocrite

I pointed this truth out to you

You claimed I was “whining” (This was the first insulting thing other than your general hypocrisy that was directly insulting to me in particular)

You’ve been doing nothing but belittling people that do care about this issue in this thread

That makes you an asshole

You’ve wrongfully assume this is a cause I care deeply about

That makes you Presumptuous and stupid

For the record I do think it’s wrong but it’s not on the top of my list. But far be it for me to tell others what they should focus on ( That’s only something an asshole like you would do)

Now let’s hear you whine again how much you don’t care... fucking hypocrite 🙄

[–] SwordoftheRevelation -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

My first comment in which I refer to what you're doing as WHINING is right here, "If you'd like you could always provide me with your reasons for taking this so seriously instead of just criticising my stance that it is a non issue without providing any reason for me to care in the slightest, but since you've opted to just whine at me that I SHOULD care because reasons I think that's the last thought I'll be putting into this until I'm provided with any evidence that this is an issue that effects more than 2% of the male population." it comes immediately AFTER you made a comment calling me "Intellectually stunted" and said that I "Don't have the brain capacity to actually have an honest discourse." That comment was and I quote, "Wow your responding without giving it a second thought huh? How intellectually stunted. Guess you don’t have the brain capacity to actually have an honest discourse." You called me stupid twice before I ever said anything about you being a whiney little bitch. Although I do stand by that assertion now as you're not interested in doing anything other than calling names at this point. Also, if you're going to claim that I care so much about the circumcision issue then you really can't make the claim that you don't care when you keep making comments just as much as I do. Either straighten out your logic or start calling yourself a "HyPOcRiTE" too.

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

For a low priority you still seem quite invested. You could have just accepted the fact that I don't back your cause, down voted my comment, and moved on. Instead you took the time to write me a comment. See how that reasoning doesn't really seem to work here? Same situation with you claiming that I care about this. All I said is that I don't get why everyone is so concerned about it and that it doesn't seem like a cause that's worth losing any sleep over. For me it's a non issue, but you feel free to champion whatever stupid shit you want. Not like you need my approval. I'm dismissive because it doesn't effect damn near anyone and it didn't effect me negatively so it's fine. I'm not a hypocrite, my feelings on the matter have remained consistent. You on the other hand call me out for resorting to insults when in reality it was you who started this shit show calling me stupid twice in the same comment. But, you feel free to be as inconsistent with YOUR values as you like.

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] Cromwellity 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] goodmod [ M ] 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] SwordoftheRevelation 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]SwordoftheRevelation -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, given the fact that every single nerve ending in everyone's stomachs is constantly sending the signal that it's coming into contact with acid we just shouldn't allow people to have stomachs anymore. Existence is full of pain. Your mind just blocks most of it out except for the stuff that's unusual pain or might kill you. Especially for babies. Nice cozy 99 degrees Fahrenheit squeezed through a narrow passage that can kill you if your mother doesn't push hard enough or you come out wrong, into a lovely 70 degrees for a drop of 29 degrees total pretty much instantly. Then, any time you touch your face your razor thin nails cut your skin. After that colder medical equipment to check your vitals and make sure you're not getting TOO comfortable in the room temperature challenge. Now, it's time to experience hunger for the first time. Then a bit of diaper rash, exhaustion, nightmares, probably a medical complication at some point in time during your first year and all of that still doesn't mean that you'll survive because SIDS can strike at any time in the first year. An infant's life in particular is full of pain and one more thing really doesn't matter to me. Now, I'm going to guess that up next you'll just call me an asshole and move on with your day and of course you're not wrong, but I'm also not wrong that in the grand scheme of things a centimeter of skin really doesn't matter worth a damn. On the other hand, children who feel they can't come forward about their sexual abuse because they think they're supposed to be tough or because they think they're supposed to like sexual contact because they're male and as such all sexual contact is good sexual contact seems like a bigger problem to me. Teens who act out because the world is telling them to be so many things at once and they can't make heads or tails of whether they're supposed to be super macho or super caring that seems like a decent issue to me. Young men who are terrified of having children because they saw what their mothers did to their fathers in custody battles or young men terrified of marriage because they know that means not only their body, but their mind, their soul, their funds, their reproductive rights, their freedom as a whole are all sold the moment they say I do and sign a paper which will allow a woman to take full advantage of them and upend their whole lives on a whim seems like a huge issue to me. Men being afraid of being alone with women because they know no one will believe them if she says he did something, companies being afraid to hire women because it might be a lawsuit waiting to happen and yet being forced to hire at bare minimum X number of women and market their ads to women lest they be burned on the fires of the feminist lynch mob and the government's scorn seems like an issue to me. But, enjoy your fight for the skin. I hope it's over soon so people can just stop talking about it already and focus on the things that lead men to commit suicide at 3 times the rate of women.

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Existence is full of pain

What? i thought it was the job of the parents to keep their babies AWAY from pain?

Then a bit of diaper rash

LMAO dude, did you just compare diaper rash with Surgical removal of Skin?

centimeter of skin really doesn't matter worth a damn

Don't knock it till you've tried it. /r/foreskin_restoration

On the other hand, children who feel they can't come forward about their sexual abuse because they think they're supposed to be tough or because they think they're supposed to like sexual contact because they're male and as such all sexual contact is good sexual contact seems like a bigger problem to me

No one said it wasn't a bigger problem. The way we casually treat surgically altering baby boy penis shows how we culturally view boys to just "Suck it up" even as INFANTS, it just continues throughout our life. This would never be accepted if we did this to girls.

I hope it's over soon so people can just stop talking about it already and focus on the things that lead men to commit suicide at 3 times the rate of women.

ALL ISSUES ARE LINKED, you cannot view circumcision, divorce courts,machismo etc etc from an isolated point of view. They're all part of the same insidious culture of misandry within our culture, if we change people's general outlook towards boys&men, THEN we can easily bring all the legal changes we need.

[–] SwordoftheRevelation -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No. It's not the job of parents to keep their babies away from pain. Parents are meant to keep their children alive, but not free from pain.

I compared a type of pain with a type of pain.

I really don't need to try hanging weights from my penis. Still plenty sensitive. REALLY don't need to worry about my sex life buddy.

You're right that it wouldn't be accepted if we did it to girls, but once again I started this out by simply saying the debate was draining and that I didn't care about the issue enough to support the anti-circ or pro-circ causes. If people wanted to do labiaplasty on infant girls I wouldn't care about that either and would instead be focused on the things that cause these children to suffer and end their lives as adults rather than concerning myself with a little extra sensitivity that I really don't miss.

And now you sound like the MRA equivalent of an intersectional feminist. "It's all connected!" Eh. Even if it is, then this issue would be treated by treating that outlook rather than trying to change laws about such a meh issue in the first place. Why cut the grass blade by blade when you could just throw a lawn mower on it and take care of the bigger picture instead?

[–]CoolMintMC 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]volabimus 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SwordoftheRevelation 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]another_redditor1219 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]inconspeakuous 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]were_gonna_make_it 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're making a lot of assumptions.

Do "flaps" really annoy you that much that you need to get rid of them? What other body flaps and crevices are you going to willingly amputate so you don't have to worry about cleaning them?

Why would you be less sensitive with more penis and sensory nerves?

And why would you think it's "harder and more painful" when you're older? An adult can get fully anesthetized when he's cut, a baby cannot. Anesthesia wasn't even used on babies at all during circumcision up until a few years ago. Would you accept that as a man? An adult also has the foreskin separated from the head of the penis. On a baby it's fused together and must be torn apart, in much the same way as you would rip someone's fingernail off.

Why would you think this is a predicament at all? For 99% of men across the world its never an issue at all.

I'm not telling you that you should be bothered by it. You are completely entitled to your feelings about your body. But consider these reasons above for why some men do consider it to be a major issue.

[–]AbysmalDescent 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Kind of thankful I don’t have to clean under any flaps

You don't "clean under the flaps", the skin retracts naturally as you pull back(same motion you would naturally do while cleaning or masturbating) or as you get erect. I understand that you may not have one but you should at least understand the basics before entering this conversation.

And wouldn’t you be less sensitive in the bed?

How could you it possibly make you be less sensitive? Circumcision removes nerve endings and natural skin, which are what create sensation. After circumcision, you effectively have less skin surface to feel things with, and the surface you do have is scarred and inherently less sensitive. You are also removing a natural protection for the glands, which keeps it hydrated and protected. After circumcision, the glans is hardened and callouses, which also removes sensitivity.

wouldn’t it be much harder and painful to cut than when they’re born

As an adult, you would have access to various forms of anesthetics and pain medication, which wouldn't be accessible to children(a lot of practices will not even use anesthetics, disregarding a baby's pain because "he won't remember it"). It's also a pain that you could take on willingly, and because you want it, not because it was forced on you. It wouldn't be any worse than any other willing cosmetic surgery(which adults have all the time).

This whole predicament sucks, pun absolutely intended.

What pun? There's no sucking involved with circumcision.

[–]inconspeakuous 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthEquus 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mar_Ci 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mar_Ci -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mar_Ci -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]volabimus 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mar_Ci -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]die_in_a_sinkhole 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FrankSavage420 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]f91w593 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]UbiquitousWobbegong 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]imiye 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MASTERoQUADEMAN 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FleshPanda 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RedPandaParliament 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Persian-Gulf 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MotherOfLogic -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]volabimus 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AbysmalDescent 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tiiimmmbooo 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Persian-Gulf -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tiiimmmbooo 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Persian-Gulf -3 points-2 points-1 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tiiimmmbooo 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Persian-Gulf -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]sdraz 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AbysmalDescent -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

All men are capable of cleaning themselves and, even if they were handicapped to the point of being unable to clean themselves, that still wouldn't justify cutting off lobes of skin off of them. Not just because men who can't clean themselves would be dirty no matter what but because it would be pretty inhumane to do so as well. Where do you even draw the line? Do you start cutting off limbs, or ear lobs, because handicapped men can't clean themselves?

It looks like ant eater.

That is your prejudice speaking, nothing more. It doesn't actually look like an ant-eater, though I'm not really sure how a resemblance to any other object could be viewed as something negative(this would be like saying "ew, penises look like cucumbers, gross!"). I could also just as easily state that a circumcised penis looks incredibly calloused, unnatural, scarred and inhibited.

I’m proud of my cut dick and had men and women giving compliments about it.

And you don't think men with intact penises can't be proud of their penises, or never get compliments? It's weird that you would bring this up as an actual argument. It demonstrates a great deal of insecurity and defensiveness on the subject of circumcision. You can still be proud of your penis and understand how circumcision is barbaric, unnecessary and an obvious human rights violation

[–]Persian-Gulf 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AbysmalDescent 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] manbunsmagee -2 points -1 points 0 points 6 years ago * (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AbysmalDescent 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hurricane12112 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Blutarg -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]reddituser4030 points 6 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

As an uncircumcised man. I really wish I was cut as a baby. Not only do I find my foreskin very unsightly, it is very uncomfortable pulling it back to wash it, when I first started having sex it was actually quite painful and even tore a few times during sex. If I forget to have a shower one day, it smells quite awful and collects dick cheese. I really hate the sight of my flaccid penis, I consider myself to be average sized but when I’m soft it i do feel embarrassed and self conscious about it. If I ever got pantsed at a party or in public I would literally die. (2” anteater lol). I could never just pull my pants down in front of someone and be ready for sex, I have to be fully showered and have at least a semi before I am willing to expose myself. I truly believe our penises are literally “confidence rods” and the way a man feels about his penis will affect his perspective of life. I also believe that a circumcised man with his penis desensitized lasts longer in bed allowing to keep blood flow for longer periods would also increase its size as well. I mean, I’m not complaining with what I got but to say I’m jealous of other larger cut guys would be an understatement. I’m now married and even though I’m comfortable with my partner, she’s told me she wishes that I was cut, and if we ever have a son she wants to have him circumcised and I 100% agree

[–]were_gonna_make_it 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AbysmalDescent 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

it smells quite awful and collects dick cheese.

With ignorant statements like these, there is no way I could possibly believe that you have ever had an intact/natural foreskin. There is no such thing as "dick cheese". This is something completely ignorant women, or children, would think of when trying to discuss circumcision. The smell is no different than any other form of body odor either, and would most certainly still be there for circumcised men, and women, as well. The human body builds up sweat and dead skin when you don't wash it, and this is true of every single part of your body.

Not only do I find my foreskin very unsightly

This kind of sounds like bullshit. The odds of you finding your own penis "unsightly" would be very slim to nil. And, even if you did, this would just be a product of your own personal insecurities or learned prejudices.

it is very uncomfortable pulling it back to wash it

Again, sounds like bullshit. I've been cleaning my own dick my entire life, it has never been uncomfortable or painful to pull back. It pulls back naturally. If you are having issues with basic functions of your anatomy, you should see a doctor.

and even tore a few times during sex.

Again, sounds like bullshit but, if true, you were clearly doing something wrong.

I really hate the sight of my flaccid penis, I consider myself to be average sized but when I’m soft it i do feel embarrassed and self conscious about it.

That is your personal issue. I don't think having a mutilated penis, with exposed scar tissue and a discoloured calloused head, would somehow improve the aesthetics of your penis

If I ever got pantsed at a party or in public I would literally die. (2” anteater lol)

People with intact penises do not refer to their own dicks as "anteaters" in a derogatory manner. This would be like using cucumbers as a derogatory term to describe your own penis. Normal people don't do this. Not unless you have some kind of gender identity disorder or extreme body issues.

I truly believe our penises are literally “confidence rods” and the way a man feels about his penis will affect his perspective of life.

This has nothing to do with circumcision, and a lot of men with mutilated penises can be self-concious about their dicks too.

I also believe that a circumcised man with his penis desensitized lasts longer in bed allowing to keep blood flow for longer periods would also increase its size as well.

Again, this sounds like pure delusional misconceptions, or the juvenille fabrications of a circumcised men to validated their own superiority. Circumcision does not increase the size of your penis in any way, nor does it make you last longer. Trying to argue that less sensitivity is good because is makes you "last longer" also isn't just untrue(how long a guy lasts is dependent of a lot of other factors, and guys get used to their level of sensitivity) but a very twisted attempt to rationalize their circumcision.

if we ever have a son she wants to have him circumcised

Even if everything you wrote here wasn't complete bullshit, this still wouldn't justify you forcing a circumcision on a newborn. If you want to get circumcised as an adult, you still have the option to do so, but that's not something you should force on a child that does not have the capability to consent. It's his body, not yours. The fact that you may have all these insecurities about your body does not mean that he will, and it's certainly not an insecurity you should be trying to push onto your son(which is exactly what it sounds like you're doing).

[–]GlennQuagmireEsq 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ImpressedDog123 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]oofed-bot 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]PiemanAidan -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HierEncore -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]insaniaeternus 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Persian-Gulf -20 points-19 points-18 points 6 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

[–]God_King1257 16 points17 points18 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Persian-Gulf -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Persian-Gulf 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]counter345 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Persian-Gulf 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]counter345 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tepa_Tassuliini 15 points16 points17 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Greg_W_Allan 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GrimmPsycho655 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Knee_Growss 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[+]thekiltedpir8 -22 points-21 points-20 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]pacmatt27 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thwip623 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Hurricane12112 -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Greg_W_Allan -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LgDietCoke 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+] Persian-Gulf -6 points -5 points -4 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–] manbunsmagee 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–] Persian-Gulf -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–] manbunsmagee 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–] Persian-Gulf 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–] manbunsmagee 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–] Persian-Gulf -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–] manbunsmagee -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–] Persian-Gulf 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–] manbunsmagee 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–] Persian-Gulf 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] manbunsmagee -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] Persian-Gulf 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] manbunsmagee 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KittensAndPizza17 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Persian-Gulf 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jademonkeys_79 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]intactisnormal 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]intactisnormal 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]checkontharep 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]waltermittty 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JackFisherBooks 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]katamaritumbleweed 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]omegaphallic 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Plisken999 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GrimmPsycho655 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Zaza_Kurdi 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]liriodendron1 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]LgDietCoke -8 points-7 points-6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fox-Costeo 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]intactisnormal 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–] Fox-Costeo -2 points -1 points 0 points 6 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–] intactisnormal 4 points 5 points 6 points 6 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–] Fox-Costeo -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–] intactisnormal 2 points 3 points 4 points 6 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–] Fox-Costeo 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–] intactisnormal 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–] Fox-Costeo -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–] intactisnormal 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago * (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] stevefromflorida697 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–] intactisnormal 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago * (10 children) | Copy Link

[–] stevefromflorida697 -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–] intactisnormal 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–] stevefromflorida697 -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago * (7 children) | Copy Link

[–] intactisnormal 2 points 3 points 4 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–] stevefromflorida697 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–] intactisnormal 2 points 3 points 4 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–] stevefromflorida697 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] intactisnormal 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] stevefromflorida697 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago * (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] intactisnormal 2 points 3 points 4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Fox-Costeo 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] stevefromflorida697 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago * (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]urboiautism -22 points-21 points-20 points 6 years ago (95 children) | Copy Link

[–]PuddleOfMush 21 points22 points23 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[+]urboiautism -12 points-11 points-10 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]needletothebar1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (49 children) | Copy Link

why do you think you have a right to decide how another man's penis will look and function for the rest of his life?

[–]urboiautism -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

[+]needletothebar1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (47 children) | Copy Link

so you weren't suggesting that a man's father should be the one to choose if that man gets his whole penis or only part of it?

[–]urboiautism -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (46 children) | Copy Link

[+]needletothebar1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (44 children) | Copy Link

my father doesn't deserve any more say than my mother deserves. they both belong in prison for what they did to me.

[–]urboiautism -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link

[+]needletothebar1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (42 children) | Copy Link

how much of your penis would you let them cut off before you stand up for yourself and your rights?

[–]urboiautism 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (41 children) | Copy Link

[+]needletothebar1 points 6 years ago [recovered] (40 children) | Copy Link

do you think parents should be able to amputate any of their daughter's clitoris without being charged with child abuse?

[–] urboiautism -4 points -3 points -2 points 6 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar8 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar12 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism -2 points -1 points 0 points 6 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar10 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar9 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar9 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar6 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar6 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar5 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar5 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar6 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz3 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+] [deleted] 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Knee_Growss 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar0 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]thwip62 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrskirksey 11 points12 points13 points 6 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]urboiautism 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrskirksey 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]urboiautism 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrskirksey 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]urboiautism -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Greg_W_Allan 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]urboiautism 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]urboiautism 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Shit actually backed up by facts not just wild accusations.

There's only one study that I know of that actually shows circumsison has any benefit at all. Literally just one. And it was done in subsaharan Africa not in the US or Europe (completely different conditions), circumcised men couldn't have sex for several weeks after the surgery, and they were instructed on the importance of condoms. First of all this is only one study (there's always anomalies you can't rely on only one study), second of all there's several flaws in the methodology circumcised men has several advantages, thirdly it was done in an area of the world with way poor sanitary conditions then they US so even if it didn't have any flaws we couldn't assume it'd be applicable in countries with better sanitation but yet doctors reference it till they're blue in the face

[–]urboiautism 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]urboiautism 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]urboiautism 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Outside of the US it isn't recommend (excluding Muslims and Jewish countries who have a religious reasons to promote circumcision)

Canadian Paediatric Society (CPS) (2015)

The CPS does not recommend the routine circumcision of every newborn male. It further states that when “medical necessity is not established, …interventions should be deferred until the individual concerned is able to make their own choices.”

Royal Dutch Medical Association (KNMG) (2010)

The KNMG states “there is no convincing evidence that circumcision is useful or necessary in terms of prevention or hygiene.” It regards the non-therapeutic circumcision of male minors as a violation of physical integrity, and argues that boys should be able to make their own decisions about circumcision.

The Royal Australasian College of Physicians (RACP) (2010)

The RACP states that routine infant circumcision is not warranted in Australia and New Zealand. It argues that, since cutting children involves physical risks which are undertaken for the sake of merely psychosocial benefits or debatable medical benefits, it is ethically questionable whether parents ought to be able to make such a decision for a child.

British Medical Association (BMA) (2006)

The BMA considers that the evidence concerning health benefits from non-therapeutic circumcision is insufficient as a justification for doing it. It suggests that it is “unethical and inappropriate” to circumcise for therapeutic reasons when effective and less invasive alternatives exist.

Expert statement from the German Association of Pediatricians (BVKJ) (2012)

In testimony to the German legislature, the President of the BVKJ has stated, “there is no reason from a medical point of view to remove an intact foreskin from …boys unable to give their consent.” It asserts that boys have the same right to physical integrity as girls in German law, and, regarding non-therapeutic circumcision, that parents’ right to freedom of religion ends at the point where the child’s right to physical integrity is infringed upon.

In addition

medical organizations and children’s ombudsmen from a number of other countries, including Belgium, Finland, Norway, Slovenia, South Africa, Denmark, and Sweden, have gone on record in opposition to non-therapeutic circumcision of boys.

[–] urboiautism 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGuyWhoCriedOnions 26 points27 points28 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+] urboiautism -20 points -19 points -18 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]needletothebar24 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] thwip62 5 points 6 points 7 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] urboiautism 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] thwip62 1 point 2 points 3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]forzion_no_mouse1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

maybe we should do surgery on all kids to remove extra skin and pleasure nerves. if sex doesn't feel as good we will have less STDs

[–]urboiautism 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gordongessler 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]urboiautism 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]thwip62 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]urboiautism 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]thwip62 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]urboiautism 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thwip62 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

> I’ve always been told it’s not a necessary thing to do

Well, of course it's not necessary. Most men haven't had this done to them, and they're fine.

> You remove the skin it’s easier to keep clean

People wash their whole bodies. How does cutting off one part for "easier cleaning" make any sense? Washing your hair is probably more hassle than washing a normal penis. Should we have our hair removed, too? I wash my ass after I take a shit, but I don't complain about how much effort it takes, I just do it.

> and see possible STDs

So having bits of your dick removed makes you completely immune to STDs, does it?

> Yeah if the doctor slips up it’s a bad thing

"A bad thing"? Is that what you call ruining a person's future sex life while performing an operation that doesn't need to be performed? What the hell are these parents supposed to tell their son? How can he forgive them?

> but i dont know the actual statistics of fuck ups like that.

The actual statistics are irrelevant. That it's a possibility at all should be enough reason not to do it.

> And it’s a lot harder to do this operation when you’re an adult because getting an erection will rip the stitches out.

I don't buy this, but even if it were true, it's unlikely an adult will want or need this procedure. If he does, then the responsibility falls entirely upon him.

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]DelScipio1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

The problem is that most of those facts aren't true at all.

STD risk reduction is very very low. So low that isn't acceptable in developed countries as effective way to reduce STD. Is só low that isn't even statistical significative in developed countries!

An uncircumcised penis is very easy to clean, is the same as yours, water and soap.

That is false, the stitches don't rip with an erection. That is as common as losing your penis during a circumcision. Is more painful, because you remember, but that's all. But phymosis isn't that frequent. Most phymosis, 97%, get fixed during earlier years.

Now, sex performance. Uncircumcised take more time to orgasm, but recent studies show that women don't like that. Women aren't porn actresses, they want to orgasm faster possible, and they do faster with uncircumcised penis. In the end there's no statistical difference in women reaching orgasm with uncircumcised or a circumcised, but they have less pain with uncircumcised penis because faster orgasm, more lubrication. This leads to better satisfaction with uncircumcised penis.

And lets not forget masturbation, a very important thing in men life. Masturbation is very important for a penis health, as is a lot better in uncircumcised penis

[–]urboiautism 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[+]DelScipio1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

Ya, women orgasm more easily with an uncircumcised penis. There's no difference (statistically) between women orgasms (orgasm before men) in circumcised VS uncircumcised, but having and orgasm faster leads to better sexual satisfaction to women, because friction, etc. The skin in uncircumcised penis increase friction, but being self lubed and reducing the amount of time to make a women orgasm, reduces the injuries that happen in a sex in their vagina.

If you have herpes is easy to identify it on both situations. There's no difference in that. The difference is that circumcised penis have more lahngerhans cells in the scar (that's the theory) and that reduces infection rate in Africa (not a lot) . They tried to see if the same happens in developed countries, it didn't, because we have better hygiene. Still this argument was used by pro circumcision movement.

NP. The porblem is that many people here are trolls in these situations, and some people get fed up.

[–]urboiautism 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]DelScipio1 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Ya, ya. That's why I replied to you. Otherwise I would pass.

If you put and erected penis side by side they would note no difference.

The biggest problem with circumcision isn't when things are fine. Is when surgeries go wrong. Insensitive penis, pain during sex (some doctors cut too much), infection that can lead to penis mutilation.

These are rare, 2% of circumcision can have important functional problems. But when you do a population circumcision you are creating a problem. Is different 2% of 2% than 2% of 55% (actual circumcision rate in USA, dropping every year).

This is why people are against a unnecessary surgery that is a religious act, to avoid masturbation.

[–]urboiautism -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]urboiautism 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BrolieTv -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WifiKeyHolder -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]WifiKeyHolder -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MrMohexon -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]the_crx 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]MrMohexon 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]the_crx 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]MrMohexon 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]the_crx 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MrMohexon 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Thejedi168 -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Thejedi168 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Thejedi168 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Thejedi168 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PiemanAidan -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]PiemanAidan -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]intactisnormal 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There are.

From the Canadian Paediatrics Society:

“It has been estimated that 111 to 125 normal infant boys (for whom the risk of UTI is 1% to 2%) would need to be circumcised at birth to prevent one UTI.” And UTIs can easily be treated with antibiotics.

“The number needed to [circumcise] to prevent one HIV infection varied, from 1,231 in white males to 65 in black males, with an average in all males of 298.” And circumcision is not effective prevention, condoms must be used regardless.

"An estimated 0.8% to 1.6% of boys will require circumcision before puberty, most commonly to treat phimosis. The first-line medical treatment of phimosis involves applying a topical steroid twice a day to the foreskin, accompanied by gentle traction ... allow[ing] the foreskin to become retractable in 80% of treated cases, thus usually avoiding the need for circumcision."

“Decreased penile cancer risk: [Number needed to circumcise] = 900 – 322,000” to prevent a single case of penile cancer.

These stats are terrible, it's disingenuous for these to be called legitimate health benefits. And more importantly, all of these items have a different treatment or prevention method that is more effective and less invasive.

Meanwhile the foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis.(Full study.)

There is not enough pros or cons to decide which is the better solution

The standard to intervene on someone else's body is medical necessity.

The Canadian Paediatrics Society puts it well:

Neonatal circumcision is a contentious issue in Canada. The procedure often raises ethical and legal considerations, in part because it has lifelong consequences and is performed on a child who cannot give consent. Infants need a substitute decision maker – usually their parents – to act in their best interests. Yet the authority of substitute decision makers is not absolute. In most jurisdictions, authority is limited only to interventions deemed to be medically necessary. In cases in which medical necessity is not established or a proposed treatment is based on personal preference, interventions should be deferred until the individual concerned is able to make their own choices. With newborn circumcision, medical necessity has not been clearly established.

http://www.cps.ca/documents/position/circumcision

To override someone's body autonomy rights the standard is medical necessity. Without necessity the decision goes to the patient themself, later in life. Circumcision is very far from being medically necessary.

[–]RockmanXX 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]PiemanAidan 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]GitGudScrubzzz0 points 6 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

There is not enough pros or cons to decide which is the better solution

Objectively wrong. The science is settled on this, not our fault you're too fucking dense to understand the plentiful research out there about the harms of circumcision.

[–]PiemanAidan 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotTodayJesus666 -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]theskullcrusher8776 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]were_gonna_make_it 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotTodayJesus666 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]were_gonna_make_it 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

No, that's impossible. When you amputate any body part you will of course lose whatever nerves were there. The few studies that have been done have shown that all of the most sensitive parts of the penis are in the foreskin. On a circumcised man, the most sensitive part of his penis usually is the scar line where the tiny bit of tissue from his original foreskin remains.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17378847/

"CONCLUSIONS: The glans of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23374102/?i=3&from=/17378847/related

"CONCLUSIONS: This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning. Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population. Before circumcision without medical indication, adult men, and parents considering circumcision of their sons, should be informed of the importance of the foreskin in male sexuality."

[+]ShavedRope -8 points-7 points-6 points 6 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]RockmanXX 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz2 points 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GitGudScrubzzz1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Resplendent_Fervor -2 points-1 points0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HardKase -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Devi1s-Advocate -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthEquus 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The commonly claimed benefits of circumcision are that it reduces the risk of getting UTIs, penile cancer, and prevents STDs. These claims are based on reports made by the American Association of Pediatrics. But there is a lot of criticism regarding their research. The important points are mentioned below:

It takes around 100 circumcisions to prevent a single UTI, and UTIs can be treated easily by other less invasive ways, like antibiotics. Not to mention, it is easily prevented with basic hygiene. 1 case of UTI may be prevented at the cost of 2 cases of haemorrhage, infection, or, in rare instances, more severe outcomes or even death. This negates whatever minuscule protective benefit circumcision might have against UTIs. And it should be noted that girls are about 10 times more likely to get UTIs and yet we do not alter their bodies to reduce their risk of infection
Penile cancer is one of the rarest forms of cancer in the Western world (∼1 case in 100,000 men per year, rarer than male breast cancer), almost always occurring at a later age with the average being 68. When diagnosed early, the disease generally has a good survival rate. According to the AAP report, between 909 and 322,000 circumcisions are needed to prevent 1 case of penile cancer. Penile cancer is linked to infection with HPV, which can be prevented without tissue loss through condom use and prophylactic inoculation. Incidence rates of penile cancer in the United States, where ∼75% of the non-Jewish, non-Muslim male population is circumcised, are similar to rates in northern Europe, where ≤10% of the male population is circumcised
The studies that claim circumcision prevents STDs often confuse correlation with causation. In fact, circumcision might increase the risk of contracting STDs, because it can cause pain and bleeding, increasing the risk of infection. The authors of the AAP report forget to stress that responsible use of condoms, regardless of circumcision status, will provide close to 100% reduction in risk for any STD

Another common claim is that circumcision reduces the risk of men contracting HIV by 60%. These were the results of some trials done in Africa, which found that 2.5% of intact men and 1.3% of circumcised men got HIV. The 60% figure is the relative risk (2.5%-1.2%)÷2.5%. The AAP also ignored the statistics showing that there was a 61% relative increase (6% absolute increase) in HIV infection among female partners of circumcised men. It appears that the number of circumcisions needed to infect a woman was 16.7, with one woman becoming infected for every 17 circumcisions performed

Moreover, there were several methodological errors in these trials:

The circumcised experimental group got more medical care, including education on the proper use of condoms
The trials were terminated early when statistical significance was reached
In one study, circumcised men's infection rates were increasing faster than the intact men's, until the study was terminated early
The circumcised group could not have sex for 4-6 weeks after the circumcision; this was excluded from the analysis and distorts the results
HIV was contracted through means other than sex
Many researchers had cultural and religious biases

The findings are also not in line with the fact that the United States combines a high prevalence of STDs and HIV infections with high circumcision rates. The situation in most European countries is the reverse: low circumcision rates combined with low HIV and STD rates. Therefore, other factors play a more important role in the spread of HIV than circumcision status. This also shows that there are alternate, less intrusive, and more effective ways of preventing HIV than circumcision, such as consistent use of condoms, safe-sex programs, easy access to antiretroviral drugs, and clean needle programs

Further criticism of the African RCTs:

Critique of African RCTs into Male Circumcision and HIV Sexual Transmission

Circumcision of male infants and children as a public health measure in developed countries: A critical assessment of recent evidence

Sexually Transmitted Infections and Male Circumcision: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis

Even if circumcision did reduce rates of HIV transmission, which it doesn't, it would be a small reduction. “The number needed to [circumcise] to prevent one HIV infection varied, from 1,231 in white males to 65 in black males, with an average in all males of 298. The model did not account for the cost of complications of circumcision. In addition, there is a risk that men may overestimate the protective effect of being circumcised and be less likely to adopt safe sex practices.”

And besides all of that, babies are not having sex. They are not transmitting ANY STDs to anyone. By the time a person is old enough to engage in sexual activities, they are old enough to decide about such body modifications for themselves

Balanitis is extremely rare. Having a surgical incision in a dirty diaper increases the risk of balanitis. This risk decreases in all males drastically after puberty. It is easily preventable with good hygiene and most cases respond to treatment in under a week

Phimosis doesn't warrant circumcision. It can be cured by stretching the foreskin gently at regular intervals. For faster results, steroid creams can also be used. If stretching doesn't work, surgery like Z-plasty and preputioplasty can be done as a last resort. None of these treatments results in the loss of tissue. Moreover, some doctors misdiagnose phimosis in young children, when they're supposed to have foreskins which can't retract, until puberty, though in some cases the foreskin becomes retractable earlier. Improper handling of the foreskins of children can cause phimosis

"An estimated 0.8% to 1.6% of boys will require circumcision before puberty, most commonly to treat phimosis. The first-line medical treatment of phimosis involves applying a topical steroid twice a day to the foreskin, accompanied by gentle traction ... allow[ing] the foreskin to become retractable in 80% of treated cases, thus usually avoiding the need for circumcision."

Smegma and hygiene are ridiculous reasons for circumcision. Properly washing the penis is enough. If you don't wash your junk, it will get dirty, period. Foreskins aren't releasing a constant ooze of smegma. You would have to neglect your basic hygiene for some time to get a significant buildup. And even then, washing takes maybe a second or two. It's not rocket science

The legitimacy of research supporting circumcision

The literature review by the American Academy of Pediatrics, which supports circumcision, does not mention any of the functions of the foreskin, implying that it is useless

Ethicist Brian Earp shows how scientific literature can be filled with bias, how medical literature can get biased with controversial opinions disguised as systematic reviews, and how a small group of researchers with an agenda can rig a systematic review in medicine to make it say whatever they want.

Opposition to circumcision by foreign medical organizations

Other medical associations and doctors in the world, from the Netherlands, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand, Germany, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Slovenia and South Africa have stated that circumcision causes complications, have also said that the evidence supporting circumcision is insufficient and flawed, and consider the AAP's views scientifically unsound. Some of them have gone on record in opposition to non-therapeutic circumcision of boys. Some doctors in the US oppose it too

Functions of the Foreskin

The foreskin has several unique physiological functions. The foreskin represents at least a third of the penile skin. It protects the glans from abrasion and contact with clothes. It also increases sexual pleasure by sliding up and down on the shaft, stimulating the glans by alternately covering and exposing it. Not to mention that it is highly erogenous tissue in and of itself.

Attempts to legitimize FGM

Another issue with using "health benefits" to justify infant male circumcision is that the same poor reasons given for baby boys are the same reasons being used in attempts to legalize and legitimize FGM on girls. They will try and use the logic that: "If it is legal on boys because there are slight medical benefits, then it should be legal and acceptable for girls as well."

[–]counter345 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Potatolover3 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]dr3adlock -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]-Daws- -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]badjuju420420 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]badjuju420420 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]badjuju420420 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]badjuju420420 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]badjuju420420 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–] badjuju420420 -1 points 0 points 1 point 6 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–] badjuju420420 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–] badjuju420420 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–] badjuju420420 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] badjuju420420 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fox-Costeo -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]vodoko1 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]jagenigma -6 points-5 points-4 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]theskullcrusher8776 5 points6 points7 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]jagenigma -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]were_gonna_make_it 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]jagenigma 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]18Apollo18 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] GrimmPsycho655 -2 points -1 points 0 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Luchadorgreen -4 points-3 points-2 points 6 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] accidental_me -5 points -4 points -3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] wrekd -5 points -4 points -3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Home

Comments

SOUR GRAPES

Phimosis isn't usually a problem unless it causes symptoms such as redness, soreness or swelling.

If your glans is sore and inflamed, you may have balanitis (inflammation of the head of the penis). There may also be a thick discharge underneath the foreskin. If both the glans and foreskin are inflamed, it's known as balanoposthitis.

Topical steroids (a cream, gel or ointment that contains corticosteroids) are often prescribed to treat a tight foreskin. They can help soften the skin of the foreskin, making it easier to retract.

Circumcision (surgically removing part or all of the foreskin) may be considered if other treatments have failed, but it carries risks such as bleeding and infection. This means it's usually only recommended as a last resort, although it can sometimes be the best treatment option

Alternatively, surgery to release the adhesions (areas where the foreskin is stuck to the glans) may be possible. This will preserve the foreskin but may not always prevent the problem recurring.

Oof Leaderboard

Canadian Paediatric Society (CPS) (2015)

Royal Dutch Medical Association (KNMG) (2010)

The Royal Australasian College of Physicians (RACP) (2010)

British Medical Association (BMA) (2006)

Expert statement from the German Association of Pediatricians (BVKJ) (2012)

In addition

Title	End circumcision
Author	dummuru
Upvotes	2995
Comments	665
Date	March 3, 2020 3:28 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/fcog6z/end_circumcision/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/end-circumcision.857765 https://theredarchive.com/post/857765